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Poor widdle diddums

 
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Baz
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2023 9:08 am    Post subject: Poor widdle diddums Reply with quote

Seems, according to the press, that Shaw has complained to the CRTC that Telus is unfairly undercutting them by offering a discount to new subscribers of high-speed services (for a limited time) that Shaw says is unreasonable.

There is no 'real' competition otherwise in this market. All high-speed providers offer services within pennies of each other, while any 'deals' generally offered are almost identical - though rarely offered at the same time.

Telus has bucked that and that's what is upsetting Shaw. Nevermind the rate Telus is offering is proably a lot closer to what should be on offer from the ISPs...

Meanwhile, to my mind, its unlikely the CRTC would want to wade into this - and this is partly the fault of the ISPs themselves. The CRTC has not the mandate to involve itself in Internet Providers and the ISPs have made worked very hard to ensure that they have not been given that mandate.

Either the CRTC has to say 'sorry, but no' to Shaw, or else it needes to get off the pot and properly govern ISPs - ensuring the subscriber gets the service they should reasonably expect at a fair price.

And there's no way Shaw, Rogers, Telus or Bell want that.
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Bell-boy
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2023 9:49 am    Post subject: ...the details Reply with quote

News from CCNMatthews

Shaw Asks CRTC to Ensure Fair and Sustainable Competition in the Internet Access Market

08:30 EDT Tuesday, September 23, 2023

CALGARY, ALBERTA--Shaw Cablesystems, Canada's second largest cable and Internet service provider, today filed an application with the CRTC asking the Commission to order Telus to stop its anti-competitive pricing of DSL Internet services and ensure fair and sustainable competition in the high-speed Internet access market.

"Over the past five months, Telus has offered at least 18 different promotions for Internet access service to customers in Alberta and British Columbia. These promotions are priced well below Telus' cost of service and extend beyond reasonably accepted periods of time for promotions," said Peter Bissonnette, President of Shaw Communications Inc. "We have always competed vigorously and fairly in every segment of our business. We compete against satellite and the telephone companies for both video and high-speed data services," he added.

"We're in favour of fair and sustainable competition because we believe it is in the best interests of the consumer," said Jim Shaw, Chief Executive Officer of Shaw Communications Inc. "However, if these predatory pricing practices are permitted to continue it could significantly reduce competition in the Internet access market in Western Canada, that is not in the best interests of serving Internet customers," he added.

Shaw has specifically asked in its application that the CRTC forbid Telus from offering Internet promotional pricing at below-cost rates for periods in excess of three months. It also asks that the CRTC prevent Telus from offering competitive service bundles that include local telephone service in contravention of CRTC regulations.

Shaw Communications Inc. is a diversified Canadian communications company whose core business is providing broadband cable television, Internet and satellite direct-to-home ("DTH") services to approximately 2.9 million customers. Shaw is traded on the Toronto and New York stock exchanges (Symbol: TSX - SJR.B, NYSE - SJR).

Shaw's Part VII Application Against Telus Regarding its Internet Promotional Pricing Practices

Fact Sheet

September 23, 2023

- A Part VII application to the CRTC is a request to the CRTC asking it to issue an Order or Decision on a particular matter. This application is filed under the CRTC Telecommunications Rules of Procedure.

- Shaw's Part VII application makes six requests:

1. that the CRTC declare the promotional pricing for the Internet
service of Telus contravenes the Telecommunications Act
2. that the CRTC declare that below-cost pricing in excess of 3 months
does not qualify as a legitimate promotional offering
3. that the CRTC direct Telus to cease offering high-speed Internet
service promotions at below-cost rates for periods in excess of 3
months
4. that the CRTC declare that Telus' "Student Bundle" that combines
local telephone service, long distance, Internet access, and other
services breaches the Commission rules on bundling
5. that the CRTC direct Telus to stop its "Student Bundle" offering
6. that the CRTC order Telus to comply with the Commission's regulations
on all future promotional, bundling and pricing activites and on the
bundling of tariffed services (local telephone service) and
competitive services.


- Shaw has advocated and supported the CRTC in its efforts to introduce fair and sustainable competition in the broadcasting, telecom, and Internet service markets in Canada. Shaw believes that competition within the boundaries set by the CRTC should be focused on the long term benefit to the consumer. Shaw competes vigorously and fairly against satellite and telephone companies for both video and high-speed data services. Shaw did not oppose recent Broadcasting Distribution License applications by Telus, SaskTel, and MTS; arguing only that the rules and regulations be applied even-handedly upon all service providers.

- The regular retail rate of Shaw high-speed Internet service is $42.95 per month and includes lease of a cable modem. Customers who own a cable modem are charged $37.95 per month

- The regular retail rate of Telus high-speed Internet service is $42.95. It is reduced to $37.95 per month when the customer owns a DSL modem. The price is further reduced by $3 per month if the customer also subscribes to Telus Long Distance service

- Since May, 2003 Telus has offered a variety of Internet promotions to consumers. Shaw, in its Part VII application, provided the CRTC with examples of 18 below-cost promotions by Telus in the last several months. These promotions range from 12 months at $16.95 to 36 months at $24.95 for the Telus high-speed Internet service and include the following:

- 6 months at $16.95 per month followed by a rate of $24.95 per month
- 6 months at $16.95 per month
- 6 months at $16.95 per month plus one month free
- 6 months at $16.95 per month then $32.95 thereafter
- 6 months at $19.95 per month
- 6 months at $21.95 per month
- 6 months at $24.95 per month
- 9 months at $16.95 per month
- 12 months at $16.95 per month
- 12 months at $19.95 per month
- 12 months at $24.95 per month
- 12 months at $19.95 per month then 12 months at $24.95 per month
- 12 months at $19.95 per month then $29.95 per month thereafter
- 12 months at $19.95 per month plus one month free
- 12 months at $21.95 per month, one month free, and $24.95 per
month thereafter
- 12 months at $21.95 per month, one free month and then $31.95 per
month thereafter
- 18 months at $24.95
- 36 months at $24.95 per month


- All of these promotions are priced below Telus' cost of service.

- Shaw states in its application that, if Telus is permitted to continue its below-cost promotional pricing, consumers in Alberta and British Columbia may see a short-term drop in Internet access prices, but that, eventually, competition will be reduced as competitors are forced from the market because they simply cannot compete with these predatory below-cost prices. Ultimately, consumers will be penalized by these short term predatory pricing practices.

- The Competition Bureau has made the following comments in respect of below-cost pricing:

"While consumers may benefit from the resulting low prices for a brief period, they can be harmed in the long-run if the low pricing leads to diminished competition and, ultimately, higher prices or reduced levels of service, product quality or innovation."

There is no effective competition in the local residential telephone market in Alberta and British Columbia. Telus has over 95% of this market in the two provinces.

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION PLEASE CONTACT:

Shaw Communications Inc.
Jim Shaw
Chief Executive Officer
(403) 750-4500
or
Shaw Communications Inc.
Peter Bissonnette
President
(403) 750-4500
Website: www.shaw.ca

CCNMatthews
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Baz
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2023 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what, exactly, is the 'cost of service' to these ISPs - now that they are supplying the service themselves and are not at the whim of an external service provider - the @home service of old?

While its worthwhile to note that the 'regular' price of high speed for Telus & Shaw appears to be identical (and ditto for the user who has a modem) and that Shaw doesn't seem to have a problem with that - and that's rather similar to identical cellphone contracts or those gas companies insisting their prices are competitive - if Telus can afford to run extended promotions that undercut that, then why shouldn't they?

Maybe there selling at a loss - probably they're not. But how would Shaw know Telus' costs?

Will this competitiveness drive down the cost of accessing the net? I sure hope so. Will it kill off smaller competition? Maybe. But that would be the competition Shaw and Telus haven't absorbed or forced out of business already?

Shaw and Rogers were have both, by now, to have opened up their bandwidth to smaller ISPs to piggyback on and to add competition to the market - and they have not, citing 'technical' reasons - reasons other local cable and ISP companies have long since solved.

If they cannot be competitive as an ISP then they can hardly go to the CRTC and complain. They have too many telecommunication issues themselves outstanding AND, *the CRTC does not have a mandate to regulate ISPs*.
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Bell-boy
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2023 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...so if telus is selling their products below cost I wonder what the following is worth and if the products and services aren't below cost then we as consumers are paying way too much for Shaw's products. Perhaps one of the sales associates or managers (whatever they are calling you these days)who periodically appear in the RBUA forum could give us a cost breakdown.Smile
Quote:

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Baz
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2023 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, according to Shaw's own site, the DCT 2000 costs $198.98 ($89 w/some packages - read, Bundles) while the Total Entertainment Package costs $56.95 per month.

I'm sorry, but being able to offer all this as -

"FREE Professional Installation
FREE Digital Cable Terminal (DCT2000)
3 Months of FREE Service
2 Free "Pay Per View" movie coupons"

- is different from Telus offering a service at a considerable discount to attract new subscibers just how, exactly?

These various ploys - if the service *really* costs as much as these companies insist - must be therefore reimbursed by penalizing those longterm subscribers not eligible for the discount - or the services are nowhere near as expensive as they insist to begin with.

Either way, its not good news for subscribers.
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Baz
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2023 7:33 am    Post subject: And furthermore... Reply with quote

Shaw is a major stakeholder in Star Choice, so their comments about 'the weather getting you down' or Star Choice's 'They don't want you to have a choice' rings a little hollow, don'cha think?

Move from one service to another and chances are you'll still be getting services from Shaw - or at least a tier full of their stations....
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Baz
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2023 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

September 30, 2023

We acknowledge receipt of your email dated September 29, 2003.

We would like to reiterate that there are currently no Internet service standards and the issues you raise are not part of our mandate.

We have taken the liberty of forwarding your email to Rogers for information purposes.

Sincerely yours,
Anne L. Poirier
Complaints Officer / L'agente des plaintes
Cable Television Standards Council
Conseil des normes de television par cable
1030 - 360 rue Albert Street
Ottawa, ON K1R 7X7
Tel: (613) 230-5442 Fax: (613) 230-5679
E-mail / courriel: poirier@ctsc.ca
Internet: www.ctsc.ca
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lorac
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2023 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Bell-boy posted September 26, 2023 07:49 AM
...the details

News from CCNMatthews

Shaw Asks CRTC to Ensure Fair and Sustainable Competition in the Internet Access Market

08:30 EDT Tuesday, September 23, 2023


I guess Shaw got what they were looking for... now that Cybersurf is in the market... I don't think that's what they had in mind when they asked for, "Fair and Sustainable Competition in the Internet Access Market". Just goes to show.. be careful what you wish for... it might come true Smile
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